My husbands brother decided to end his life in a VERY catastrophic way. The 'fallout' from this has reminded me of what 'people' suffer from LONG time Mental illness. I believe my 'brother-in-law' waited till the time was 'right' before he killed himseld on the train tracks. He had tried before but always came home. He had a very supportive family and working environment.
Many friends of mine here and in life go through "hell." Sometimes I have had LONG LONG chats with these friends and I always have to ask: What does this do to 'family' AFTER you are gone and FREQUENTLY this changes their mind.
Having suffered from age 12 from 'borderline bi-polar' disorders...........I KNOW that sometimes the ending of one's life is PEACE.
NO more 'pain' and it is PAIN...........pain.....pain EXCRUCIATING pain. When life is SO abysmal the only relief is death. I have NO religious 'affiliation' except my own spirituality.
I think at some point I chose to fight, no idea when this happened BUT I am still here communicating because this a reason for ME of 'being'. I fought for d/a to become 'sane' again after the 'fallout' of one man on D/a who has NO idea what this site is all about! For me d/a has always been a place where I feel SAFE. I have friends on here whom I TRUST (when I cannot relate to real friends/family). In the event of a suicide of a family member there has to be CHANGE which is good/bad depending on whether the family can 'reach out' to people they may never meet in life and really confronting the 'cause.' Sometimes family are too close?
In trying to 'get out' of the horror of these last 3 weeks I have learned one major lesson.
NEVER 'give up' if you can. Go forward and speak LOUDLY to anyone who will listen. There are SO many people who just cannot cope. My brother-in-law did not do this and he is DEAD! It's a SHIT life and we all go through so much. Speak about it?
We are going into 2017 soon and STILL we are so behind in understanding mental health. Shut off, don't communicate. Go on all your 'apps' and pretend like you are like everyone else. NO! Learn to 'like' yourself, ignore the SHIT which comes your way. Friends are ONLY true friends IF they accept you for who you are?
This is from my heart and I thank every single one of my friends on d/a who have continually supported me............you all know who you are.
But am quite worried about you. Gently, take some time for yourself now.
Because of 'talking' and openly 'reaching out' here on d/a and to some members of our family, I am at peace.
Family sometimes is just too close.
Yes.................d/a and art are my 'safety net.'
I am just waiting (like so many of us throughout the World) for this Election to be over! It seems we have been living with 'lies/deceit' bad press for a long time?
Thank you for this wonderful comment and thank you for being a good friend.
Certainly talking this out has been good.
I'm glad you're feeling better
Seeing people giving comfort and kind words really warm my heart
But people have different way to go through pain. Some search comfort with words, others with physical contact (like hug), others with art, others speak out...anything to help us feel better !
I am slowly beginning to believe that 'pain' such as my brother-in-law had became impossible. He waited till all his family was settled and happy. He went to work everyday for years and 'lived the life' everyone expected of him. We knew the problems he had and looking back.....I see this was inevitable.
Something like this is 'shattering' to everyone?
1) Firstly, everyone should be made to study philosophy...it provides you with the ideas and terms needed to understand yourself better: to use Socrates' words, the 'philosophical tools of enquiry' required to examine and understand how you think, construct reality, etc......
2) People are talking about suicide as being 'selfish'....this is WRONG! There are two huge assumptions that you are making: one, that the person who commits suicide has a choice. This presumes that the person had 'free will' - that is, having a genuine and unqualified freedom or choice when: There are at least two alternatives to choose from, Nothing prevents a person from choosing either of them, and that at the moment a particular option is chosen, the other alternative could equally have been chosen (if the circumstances are the same). Hard determinism states that EVERY EVENT HAS A CAUSE, and hence that 'free will' is an illusion......Jean-Paul Sartre......we need to take responsibility for our actions and not blame other factors/influences.
For someone who commits suicide, to them THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION! To an outsider, we can see all of other options available, but that person cannot!
The second assumption refers to the fact that if you deem something to be 'selfish', then there must be such a thing as 'selflessness' or 'true altruism'......this is rarely (if ever the case). Ethical egoism.....that what we should do is whatever is in our own individual best interests..... that we should be rationally selfish. So, if we help an old person to walk across the road, are we doing that because we really are selfless, or are we doing it to make ourselves feel good....so that we feel that we are a 'good person'....or are we doing it because our culture/society/religion tells us to? I would say that 99% of the time ethical egoism exists in all so-call 'selfless' actions, and thus, using this definition, suicide isnt truly 'selfish'.
3) Everyone says: 'oh go and talk about bla bla bla'. This assumes A LOT of things. The person is likely to not even be aware of exactly what they are going through.....how on earth can you 'talk' to other people if you don't recognise/understand it yourself?? Being able to articulate yourself requires some rational ability.......in order to be able to SEE what it is that you are experiencing or feeling, you need to be able to objectively 'step outside of your own shoes' and look at yourself from an outsider's perspective.
This is not easy.....it requires a level of rationality and intellectual capacity that not everyone possesses....yes i know that is what psychologists/professional people are for, but you wont even know that you need this kind of help if you arent even aware that you are feeling something....(if this makes sense, like 'you dont know what you dont know).....
Additionally, mental health is MENTAL, and as objectively stepping back and seeing yourself is likewise a MENTAL thing, it is very difficult to be doing both at the same time......things such as anxiety or depression are emotionally and mentally draining, so it likely that a person will take the mental resources/stamina to be able to step back......self-reflection and examination takes time and effort and energy.......if you are in the 'middle' of some kind of mental health issue or problem, it is unlikely that you will be able to do this. THUS, it is very difficult/impossible to be able to 'talk'.......'talking' presumes some degree of conscious awareness of your feelings and emotions, and that you have the words needed to express them, and this is often not the case.
4) ALSO, for some people, it may the first time that they are experiencing any sort of mental health condition, so there is likely to be a underlying sense of fear....likely to feel scared for frightened. Some people made have the opinion that they are simply a 'happy' person and hence that depression/anxiety cant, or wont, affect them.....also, within society there is the gender role of 'men dont show emotions, men are strong' etc so these people would find it difficult to 'talk' because they fear that this will 'lower' their reputation in other people's eyes/how they are seen by others.......this can lead to lots of other issues if it builds up too much.....
If you have a strong belief that you are a 'strong' person, or have been the 'rock' for other people, if that is something that you strongly identify with or is really important for you, realising that you have a mental health issue can totally shatter your sense of self-belief....your entire identity even. This is known as an 'epistemological crisis' - where what you believe that was true (or was not true) and suddenly realise that the opposite is actually true - it involves a 'Recalibration of self'. This can take a long time and people might not even realise that they are experiencing this because it is not really talked about in public discourses about mental health....it also is a scary process and can worsen/trigger other things.
5) So, as you can see, there are lots of underlying assumptions/problems that people are ignorant of, even when they are 'trying to help'. Another thing that i have noted is that people 'think' that they are helping by telling you what to do/what you should be doing....THIS DOES NOT HELP!!! Often people mistake 'help' for 'support'......help is where someone is saying, 'I'm stuck, get me outta here!' whereas support is 'I'm lost and tired, be there when i ask to be, catch me when i fall, but dont try to 'carry me' because you think that i cant walk.....be there for me so that i can 'lean on you IF or WHEN i need to, but dont tell me what to do and let me choose which path i feel that is best for me'.....people so often offer help because they 'doing the right thing' or are being polite because they know that you wont accept.....they are using the excuse of 'But I offered!!'. DONT SAY: I'm happy to help/be there for you/feel free to talk to me THEN add: 'oh but i have a family and job and social life so only have time for you on a wednesday afternoon or whatever'. DONT MAKE YOUR PROMISES CONDITIONAL! A true friend who really wants to support or help you is there at all hours of the day and is happy to stop what they are doing and be there....of course they need to eat/sleep etc....but they make you one of their top priorities. DONT ABUSE THIS! There are not enough people like this, and being 'emotionally on-call' like this is draining for them too, so dont be demanding and respect that they have a life too.....they are a FRIEND not a family member, so they are doing this because they like you/care for you, not because blood ties demand it.
6) Sorry about the massive essay, but EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TAKING THE EASY ROUTE AND CRITICISING SUICIDAL PEOPLE FOR BEING 'SELFISH' OR CRAP LIKE THIS....IT IS NOT HELPING THEM AND YOU NEED TO BE UNDERSTANDING......BLAMING THEM IS SIMPLY ADDING TO THEIR PROBLEMS AND WILL ENCOURAGE THEM TO COMMIT SUICIDE.....they will feel that they are 'helping' the people they love because they are taking all of the blame/dont want to be a burden.....they might even feel that their death is 'sacrificial'.....like 'Jesus-absolving-the-world-of-sin' type sacrifice
7) Also, people can commit suicide due to too much or too little 'social solidarity' - see Emile Durkhiem - basically "the degree to which group members share beliefs and values, and the intensity and frequency of their interaction” (to quote my textbook). So if people are too closely tied to group values, they commit suicide (think jihadists/people who are willing to die for a cause or their beliefs), or if they are too loosely connected, they commit suicide (aka isolation, disenfranchisement - what we normally think of when we think of 'suicide'). This reply is already long enough (this has already taken like an hour to write when i meant to be studying for an exam ) so im not going to explain it further....just google it.....have a look at 'anomie'......
Anyways, sending best wishes my dear Grandmama and lots of 's!!!! Much love and stay strong!
PS: This reply was like 1412 words long lol......which is about as long as my last essay that i wrote yesterday morning XD
I think you have written 'succinctly' and clearly. I understand this.
Sorry for making you read all of that but i think that it is all true and people dont know or understand ANY of it.....i think philosophy should be a mandatory subject at school, but that is another story for when i have more time
I was happy to read this and I had come to the same conclusion by a 'tortutred' path!
Maybe you are right about Philosophy.........a different way of thinking and seeing the World.
Well i am glad!
YES!!! Very important! Gives you new perspectives and ways of interpreting/seeing things/the world/people! You begin to understand WHY someone behaves the way that they do or WHY the world is the way that it is or HOW we perceive the world etc etc etc
I think that you should study it again....perhaps an introductory class like i did? that way it isnt so intense but you still cover a lot of topics and ideas....? food for thought
A wise person once said " Life IS pain. Anyone saying different is selling something" (Dread Pirate Roberts/Princess bride) and to be honest i fully believe that to be true.
Pain is the only thing that lets you know you are alive.. It is also the only thing that can give you a true sense of the intensity of pleasure and love. Without pain as a contrast we could not know the glories of anything good.
Pain and ones ability to deal with it and fight thru it and overcome it and NOT allow it to rule you but you to rule IT is what separates those who can from those who quit.
You may dislike me for this but I find suicide to be a quitters choice from a coward. ( and this is from someone who had the barrel of a shotgun in his own mouth wanting to pull the trigger) There is NO reason why someone who has the gift of life should throw it away because they "feel bad". Such who succeed in suicide are best left dead and I believe we are better off without such wasted lives infecting ours and others. They want thing ended. fine. end it and be forgotten as a waste of life. which is exactly what killing yourself is. a person wasting their whole life and future because they are too selfish about themselves to think how they could help someone else, how those who care for them feel, and the mess they leave to others to clean up afterwards.
That's PURE selfishness and that is also the kind of person I would be ashamed ( and have been) to see in the mirror.
Every breath we take and every moment we share is something special. something never known before and never to be seen again. The people who we share life with are sharing life with US as well. The giving of our love despite the pain, fighting through the pain and ignoring the pain to give that love, be the person we dream of. Those are what separates the whiners from the adults and those who make excuses from those who learn and understand.
We all fall and fail. we all make mistakes. but we never should quit. Never surrender. and never EVER give those who we love a reason to doubt that they are so meaningful to us and get thru our thick skulls that WE have meaning to them as well and that is what the pain of life is about. We share and that sharing is what defines who we are and what we are and the meaning of our life and we rage against the killing of the light of life.
I will also share one of my fav poems with you. one that is near and dear to my heart and life.. yes it's by an old guy who's long dead... but even so he his life ( and words) are not gone.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas ~ 1914 - 1953
Those who have never been there can not possibly understand. To call such persons "cowards" and "wasted life", lacks fundamental understanding.
And as I've said in an earlier post; it's not an act which is spur of the moment, but rather years and years in the making. (suffering all the while up until the terrible moment)
Do I condone suicide? Of course not. But I can say I understand, on a fundamental level. And only God can rightfully judge.
In her Jr year of high school she ( being a teen) somehow had an epiphany on her older sister graduating highschool that same year and leaving her behind.. so she did both her Jr AND Sr years in high school at the same time... does that sound like someone with ADHD & ADD ? ( her graduating GPA was 3.8 )
The problem lies not in those extreme cases of someone having a Bio imbalance. ( and those who have it convincing themselves that it is at the worst end of the spectrum ) but what steps each and evr person is willing to DO to correct or compensate for whatever problem they have. The common trend is to us such as a "reason" for anything and everything and wannow in such to the point where it becomes a personal victimization they do to themselves.. Yes it is a problem and yes it isn't easy to correct but it is for sure nothing can or will be done if the person has it ( or any problem) is the person who has such just up and quits.
I hear what you are saying. I just wish it was as simple as all of that. I really don't know what else...what words I can use to make you understand.
I only know that I can relate to how they feel. Thank God, in my case, meds do help to a large degree. But I know people whose doctors switch them often, trying to find something that will work; or if one does work, it doesn't for very long, and that sort of thing.
When a person suffers with such bio-chemical imbalances, their thinking/feelings are not normal at all. It's not at all a simple case of the 'blues' which we all get from time to time but get over eventually. Not even close. The person goes to a very dark place - and it's not their choice, and out of their control.
Unless you have first hand experience, you can never know.
I don't know what word I'd use to describe them. But "quitter" is definitely not it..... 'Hopeless'.... might be a closer description. (and that feeling, coming from a place from within a soul that is trapped in a world from which there is no escape) .... Hell on earth, gives you a small idea.
- And that's my point.
As for your family. I am so very sorry, Eric. I can only imagine how horrible it is for you, and especially for your daughter...The most soul wrenching of pain that one could ever go through in life.
I wish there was something I could say to help somehow. But I know words just won't cut it. My condolences. And I'll keep you and your daughter in my prayers.
The truth is i am NOT stronger than anyone. I am NOT strong at all. Matter of fact I an weakness personified. I know that sounds opposite of what I have stated but it isn't. I dont do/say such things from strength but from that weakness. Even right now I can see mostly blackness and feel myself giving in and I know no matter how much I fight it may eventually win. The answer is simple for me. I know I cannot overcome such feelings. I know that the depression may win and I see no brightness or light at the end of this dark hole. In short I have very little hope. I will ultimately lose this battle in life and in my mind,heart and soul. I literally cannot go on and be strong and do all the right things. Sometime sooner or later be it 5 min or 50 years Death will take me also. Yet as I said it's not my goal to win, be strong or succeed. That goal I will fail at and i know ti all too well. My only goal is to fight and go from one min to the next and then the one after that. battling each and every second of the time. I know it's useless and meaningless but even so i will not quit ever.
Here is another lil something. that "fits" with me fighting that losing battle. I just do it "Anyways" ~ www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uLtyz…
Then you and I are on the same page. A perfect paradox, perhaps...
But MY point, is, not every one has that kind of strength to persevere. (so YES, you ARE strong! Whether it's by your own doing, or Jesus carrying you through it all...for you to be able to endure, and persevere, you manage to do it) But their pain, apparently, is unbearable (for THEM).
Having compassion, and understanding in my own heart, all I am saying is that I understand this. And I don't judge them for it. But rather my heart cries for them. Especially when knowing my own thoughts have been to the ends in which these people met with, more times than I can count. ....I suppose our mission,...through this correspondence, I just realized,...is to pray for ALL people, EVERY where, who are contemplating suicide. That Jesus comes to them, and carries them through it,...always allowing them to see a bit of of hope, and light, in their darkness..
If anyone reading our correspondence can connect with, and take your words to heart, and put your perspective into action. Then you and I have done good in the eyes of God, and also by man.
Hang in there, Eric. (Just as I am doing. Love ya muchly !! ! )
The song. Perfect. Again,... to my (our) paradoxical situation/s.
I cannot agree with you with regard to your views on suicide. I think there must be some 'religious idea' of yours in here?
Is it at all possible to think of the 'length of time' one can suffer?
We are born fallible...........yes but we are all so different. SOME people cannot go on. I sincerely believe it is so.
This is like hearing old people from the past and keeps being repeated ad finitum: Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!
It is an old mentality and not pertinent now.
I love this Poem and thanks for reminding me of it.
It has to do with a 13 year old boy watching his mother have brain, lung and liver cancer, suffer thru grand mal seizure's. Lose her long red hair to radiation. Watch her weight halve from sickness from the chemo treatments enduring the pain, the sickness and fighting for almost 3 years ( they had originally gave her less than a year) Every day. Every moment. Just so that she could be with her husband who she loved and the son they both adopted into their lives.
I was there next to her when she died I held her hand and my dad held her other.
I watched her fight for one more breath.
One more heartbeat.
I know that she refused any pain medication even then because she wanted to have a clear mind to share every last moment with us. She fought till her body gave out.
But she never quit.
She fought for those she loved and to share with those she loved and we fought to share with her as well.
She died as will we all but before she died she lived.
She loved and was loved.
She shared her life and was shared with She never once ever thought of giving in to the pain or giving up/quitting on what and who was important.
I am her son and my dad's... I can do no less than they who showed me not by words or church or even poems. but by every breath they took with me that somethings are worth the pain even if it is just for more more breath or one more beat of our hearts.
I do NOT want my kids to go through me 'hanging on!' IF anything is selfish this is it!
I am no better or worse than anyone else.. and others have felt the depth of love and sorrow just as I have. and debating on the degree of intensity if meaningless . But what has meaning and what those who give up and quit on life refuse to know of ( and yes that is /was including myself) is it's EASY to die.. but not to live. and by dying and quitting and giving up. that leaves a hole that someone else needs to fill that they could have when someone is alone, scared and has no where to turn.
I feel life has a two fold purpose. To live it and to share it. and neither can be done if your alone and dead.